On today’s episode of The Achievement Index, Apollo is joined by Drew Glover, Founding Parter of Fiat Growth and General Partner at Fiat Ventures. With a relatively rounded PLE score of 48% Prioritize, 32% Leverage, and 20% execute, Drew shares that while he does think of himself as a good delegator, once he finds that he has a strong vision, he ensures that his voice is there supporting that vision throughout it’s evolution.
On today’s episode of The Achievement Index, Apollo is joined by Drew Glover, Founding Parter of Fiat Growth and General Partner at Fiat Ventures. Fiat Growth is a full-service growth marketing consultancy, which specializes in revenue-led, data-backed customer acquisition and user engagement and retention. Fiat Ventures is an emerging VC focused on supporting and growing the next generation of market leading early-stage companies in the Fintech space.
Drew has years of experience scaling marketplace development and growth in the world of startups, and he has an incredible knack for curiosity and competition. With a relatively rounded PLE score of 48% Prioritize, 32% Leverage, and 20% execute, Drew shares that while he does think of himself as a good delegator, once he finds that he has a strong vision, he ensures that his voice is there supporting that vision throughout it’s evolution.
Apollo explores why Drew thinks of himself as three feet deep and a mile wide, and the ways he’s used that wide range of knowledge to his advantage throughout his career. Drew also talks about how his upbringing impacted his life, particularly when it comes to finding comfort in the uncomfortable. There a plethora of great lessons and advice offered in this episode, so be sure to keep an ear out for it all as you look towards your next mountain.
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Guest Bio
Drew Glover is Founding Partner of Fiat Growth and General Partner at Fiat Ventures. After taking a backdoor into the VC ecosystem, Drew is no stranger to the world of growth, technology, and marketing. From his time at Steady where he led marketplace development and growth to Namely, Fjord, and Portal A, he navigated the ins and outs of Go-to-Market strategies and user acquisition. Today Drew works closely with companies like Bestow Life Insurance, Copper Bank and Lemonade on how to provide award winning products, services and acquisition strategies.
Raised in East Oakland, Drew has an unconventional background for a venture capital investor as you will hear. His father worked at a housing non-profit and his mother was a teacher. In 2019, he co-founded Fiat Growth, a consulting firm for growth-stage brands in industries from fintech to e-commerce. With Fiat Growth’s success, Drew followed the path he laid and started Fiat Ventures, a venture capital firm he co-founded in 2021 with partner Alex Harris and Marcos Fernandez. They raised $15 million for their first fund and now have $25 million in total assets under their management.
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Guest PLE Score
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Guest Quote
“I am a 37 year old individual. There are some things you're just never gonna change about me. And I know I have to continue practicing the things that I don't love to ensure that they're an ingredient into the main course.” - Drew Glover
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Time Stamps
*(3:20) Drew's Achievement Index
*(8:02) Why you need to know your vision better than anyone else
*(12:28) How to optimize your curiosity
*(18:12) Adding forcing functions to your daily life
*(22:37) Drew's background
*(25:05) Finding comfort in the uncomfortable
*(30:11) Striking balance between structure and flexibility
*(42:40) Apollo’s Takeaways
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Links
[00:00:00] Apollo Emeka: Improving your leadership skills will help you in every area of your life. But it's tough to know where to get started, and that's why we created the Achievement Index Assessment. You can take the assessment@theachievementindex.com. It takes about five minutes, and it's gonna generate a personalized report that breaks down how you prioritize, leverage and execute.
Go to the achievement index.com or find the link in the show notes.
[00:00:26] Drew Glover: I knew how much I cared about the success and the outcome. I was like, let me take it upon myself to. Try to sharpen these things that I'm not great at because of how deeply I care about those things. For me to do something that I don't love doing innately, I have to put a forcing function into my day to day life for me to continue improving and make it a skill that, you know, I can be proud of, which frankly makes my life easier.
I don't love the task. But it does make my life a lot easier as I'm trying to bring ideas and invest in the next generation of fintech unicorns.
[00:01:00] Apollo Emeka: Welcome to the Achievement Index, a podcast designed to help you understand and accelerate the ways you perform. I'm Dr. Apollo Emeka. I created the Achievement Index based on my experience in the FBI, U.
S. Army Special Forces, According to the Achievement Index, vibrant success is the result of doing well in three areas, or as we like to call them, orientations. Prioritize, leverage, and execute. On this podcast, I'll be getting inside the minds of noteworthy leaders to explore how their unique orientations inform the successes and challenges they've navigated throughout their lives and careers.
On the show today, I'll be speaking with Drew Glover, founding partner of Fiat Growth, a growth consultancy firm, and general partner at the sister fund Fiat Ventures, an emerging VC focused on supporting and growing the next generation of market leading early stage companies in the fintech space. Drew is no stranger to the world of growth, technology, and marketing.
From his time at Steady, where he led marketplace development and growth to, namely, Fjord, and Portal A, he navigated the ins and outs of go to market strategies and user acquisition. He has helped companies like Root, JPMorgan Chase, Adidas, and Nike bring award winning services and partnerships to market.
Nearly two years since its inception in 2021, Fiat Ventures has made a total of 28 investments, closing their first fund with 25 million at the end of 2022. If that's not enough, Fiat growth has surpassed 100 clients, resulting in over 1 billion, with a B, in new revenue for partnering companies since it was founded in 2018.
You may have heard of some of their partners. Copper. Redfin, SoFi, any of these ring a bell? Anyways, Drew, how in the world are you doing today, man?
[00:03:04] Drew Glover: I'm doing very well. I'm in San Francisco. It's got a real muggy feel today. It almost feels like I'm in Florida, which I love because my mom grew up in Queens, New York, and I missed the New York summers.
And, um, although California has incredible weather, sometimes you just want to get out there and just play sports and just
[00:03:22] Apollo Emeka: sweat it out. Oh, man. Absolutely. It's funny because I'm from Seattle, which, you know, it's always wet and, and cloudy up there. It doesn't, you know, people think that it pours buckets.
That would almost be better. It doesn't. It's just like cloudy all the time, like threatening to rain on you. And I'm telling you, man, when I moved to LA, it took me like four years to like... Stop appreciating the sunshine. Like I would come outside and be like, whoo, sun again for like four years straight when I lived here.
So yes, it is wonderful, wonderful out here. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. As always with our guests, I'm going to dive straight into your Achievement Index score. And so your score is really interesting. I don't think we've had anybody on the show like you where you're 48 percent prioritized.
And then you've got a more even split than we see usually with folks on the show with 32 percent leverage and 20 percent execute. That's actually kind of a higher level of execution than we typically see from our guests. How does this, how does this score strike you? I
[00:04:35] Drew Glover: spent the majority of my work, my career, I've really been, uh, or I started out really in business development and sales.
And, um, that. evolved into me more so becoming a founder and a business owner and the mixture of the two, one in the business development and sales side of my brain, I've always like I used to plan to try to be like an inch deep in a mile wide. I want to know a little about a lot. And then as I kept kind of growing, I realized I didn't want to be an inch deep.
I wanted to be like three feet deep in a mile wide. So being able to like, you know, dive deep into really any topic, but again, not be I would not call myself a deep expert in any topic. Um, and then the execution side of things is I realized that was an inhibitor for me to do things that I believed were really great ideas that everyone else around me didn't believe was a great idea yet.
And so, one thing I'd realized, you know, especially as I was building everything at Fiat Growth and Ventures is Sometimes I, I, you know, I had a vision or a project or I thought this was a place that we should be exploring more than everyone else thought I was wasting my time. And so I always took it upon, or I started learning later in my career that I wanted to have the ability to take some of these visions upon myself and put it on my back.
Get it out of the sight of my team members who might not be interested. Gather the information, gather the research, have the quantitative and qualitative conversations, and then being able to re present those visions with, call it a true model, and a true kind of like, executional path of how it could come to light.
But again, like, My business is very, very around, you know, let the data make the decisions for you. And sometimes a vision, an opinion or an idea, but it lacks the data. So going to gather that data connected to my vision makes the overall story and pitch much more compelling. That's
[00:06:39] Apollo Emeka: so interesting. I'm curious throughout your journey, have you been surrounded by high leverage folks?
Because there are some folks who they may be executives or they may be at the manager level who are used to kind of pulling priorities out of executives, right? And saying like, okay, hey, I'm hearing you say that you want to go conquer that mountain. Tell me more about that, right? Did you have those people along the journey?
It almost sounds like you didn't if you were like, they can't see it and they're not pulling it out of me. So I actually am going to have to kind of get this thing off the ground a bit. Like the idea formed a little bit more before I take it back to them because it's just not going to connect otherwise.
[00:07:21] Drew Glover: I always felt like I was a pretty good delegator, but there's one thing that I like, you know, truly believe. And if I have a vision, I should know my vision better than anyone else. So, like, delegating an idea and, like, the teasing out of an idea, sure. Like, once we've all committed to it, like, let's delegate and let's build this together.
But in terms of the, call it, like, zero to one, um, whole to end story, I've always felt like, you know, if I'm going to design the computer, I also want to be the one that's playing a huge role into, like, not just the outward design, but also all the mechanics that are happening inside.
[00:07:57] Apollo Emeka: This is awesome. So Drew is scoring 48 percent prioritize, 32 percent leverage, and 5 percent execute.
So he's able to take an idea, find easy ways to kind of get it off the ground, and then he has the energy to actually take the necessary first steps so he can get it to a point where other folks can say, Oh, I get this idea. I can take it from here. And that is so important. Because anybody can have an idea.
I mean, you could go to chat GPT right now and ask it to spit out a bunch of ideas for products or services or movies or plays, books. It's not going to execute that idea for you.
[00:08:43] Drew Glover: So not saying I want to like lead the engineering of all that, but I definitely want to be a part of all that conversation and have an idea to be able to walk in any room, you know, regardless of what part of the product it is.
And to my point earlier, right, be three feet deep and a mile wide, to be able to understand the conversation and add value, but not necessarily be the one saying, get out of my way, I'll build it myself.
[00:09:06] Apollo Emeka: I love it. How has that evolved over time? So you said that there was like an inch deep and a mile wide, and then it was three feet deep and a mile wide.
Are you still at the three feet deep? And like, what did that transition look like?
[00:09:17] Drew Glover: Yeah, so we'll stay with the analogy. I hope everyone's following it right. Like it started out an inch deep and a mile wide, right? And that was That was really me being in sales. It was me being able to have all the, the really, the soft skills, being able to connect with anyone.
If that be like what we talked about, what happened on like the show that just came out on Netflix. All the way over to what's going on in the stock market, all the way over to like, you know, what are the top trends in the fintech space and why do we care? Um, what it grew into over time though is really looking to, and this was something that came organically, there's like a lot of folks that just come out of college, if I'm talking to them, they're like, what is the one thing like in business?
Tell me to do now that like really helped you. And it was just like understanding all the different business models. inside of business. Like, for example, understand the business model of a marketplace. Supply and demand. For example, Airbnb is a marketplace. You know, I go in and I look for places to stay around the world.
They have to make it so there's enough properties. We have to also have to make it so there's enough users. You understanding the simple business model of how a marketplace works. So many things about business all the way over to like how a bank works all the way over to you know How a debt facility works or a debt product, but there was this huge unlock I had especially I was building fiat growth and I was consulting all these businesses is once I understood The rudimentary understanding of each business model.
When someone told me a new idea, I could drop it into the bucket of that business model, and then I understood the main ingredients and rules of that business model, and then I was able to quickly understand their business, and then I could connect with them on how we can actually solve the challenges they're running into.
So, when I went from an inch deep to three feet deep, it actually wasn't this thing of, you know, let me find, you know, 10, 000 other, like, facts to remember. It was more so just like this general understanding of all the different business models that is in business today and then seeing how businesses fit into those different verticals.
[00:11:24] Apollo Emeka: Uh, that's, you know, when you read something or you hear something. And you're like, Oh yes, that is how my brain works. Like that is what I believe. That is literally the best I've ever heard. Anybody articulate this thing that that's how my brain works, man. And it's funny because I have found that it's not just.
business models. It's really like systems in general, right? Like, and if you can kind of understand the gravitational forces of a system within the universe, because I have a really crazy diverse background. So I was in the FBI for six years. I was a Green Beret and did special forces stuff for, you know, a number of years.
And then I've been an entrepreneur as well. And so, like, you start to see these ways that like, Oh, actually. A special forces team or a special forces operation is much like this type of a business, right? Like this type of a business team or this type of a, of a business operation. So it's really interesting to be able to, like you said, you get these models in your head and then you can almost aggregate them too and say like, Oh, well, kind of everything follows these rules.
of gravity, right? Like everything is subject to gravity. So when I plop these dynamics or this particular business into the model, like what's missing or what's overrepresented, man, that's, that's, that's magical. Do you feel like it comes from the rest of your background? Is like, what, why do you think you think this way?
[00:12:50] Drew Glover: It all comes back to very, very important word that I think people take for granted is just purely curiosity. I am just such a curious person. Like my wife gets mad at me because I feel like I just like I'm an outgoing person, obviously in my business and everything. Like I am, I'm wildly outgoing, but I think a lot of people wouldn't understand if I told them that I was very much of a recluse at the end of the day.
And. I tend to light up when I'm really curious about stuff and I'm typically curious about everything but if people aren't like matching me on that curiosity level, I typically zone out pretty quickly but like that curious side of me is When someone tells me a problem, I just get obsessed and attached to it.
And I start trying to figure it out. And that is a really, really great superpower for many things that I do. It's also a huge detriment for other sides of my life. Not everyone wants their problem solved. Sometimes they just want to tell you their problems so you can listen. Where a lot of times in business, when they tell you a problem, they really value someone that's going to come out with like a forensic type of approach, an obsessive type of approach to help them get from, um, this is a problem to...
This is a solution. And now we're like moving in the direction we want. But that's really where it comes from, right? Like curiosity is something that you love when you can understand everything you're curious about. It was probably around midway through my career again, like that aha moment of like understanding business systems and business structures where I realized that my brain was able to digest information and quickly simplify it so I could understand everything I was curious about.
And that made it so I was able to, like, continue to just move up and right, up and to the right in my career. Because obviously, when you understand the situation, you are much more likely to be able to solve any problem that sits in front of
you.
[00:14:40] Apollo Emeka: Yeah, I love it. Yeah, you talked about it's a superpower, but it's also a drawback because not everybody wants their problem solved.
But it's also like, as a fellow curious person, Pursuing your curiosity can be incredibly time consuming as well, right? Have you noticed any kind of blowback as a result of pursuing your curiosity from maybe challenges in strategic focus or opportunity cost in pursuing your
[00:15:04] Drew Glover: curiosity? You know, I think like the next step of like me optimizing my curiosity is Understanding when emotion should be in curiosity versus logic.
Especially like, you know, one part of my business is Fiat Ventures. We are a venture fund that focuses on fintech companies. You know, we talk to over a thousand companies a year. And there's a million incredible ideas out there, right? But there's so many different things that we have to bring into the fold as we evaluate an opportunity.
That is. Do we like the founder? Does the founder come from an industry that is perfect to solve this problem? And that person's looking to solve what's the total addressable market? How many people would actually use this product? Is it too specialized? Is it perfect for this timing inside of like, call it the micro or macro climate that we're currently in.
So that curiosity is something where it is a huge balancing act in terms of like where I am today, where back in the day, when I first started investing. I saw it as, is how can I think through as many deals as I possibly can? Cause the more deals I look at. And evaluate the better of an investor I'll be where it's really shifted now of let me make it so the discovery of understanding these businesses, I can get rid of as many opportunities as possible at first glance, so I can spend more time on fewer deals, but those fewer deals are the ones that are probably going to be the greatest investments with the largest outcome.
So it's really kind of like sifting through. opportunities and trying to get rid of everything that doesn't matter at the top of the funnel and then being able to work on just a small number that you really, really believe in.
[00:16:41] Apollo Emeka: Yeah, that's interesting. I mean at that point though, how is curiosity playing into that?
So like what you're saying makes me think of, I used to have a neighbor who was a stand up comedian and I'm like How do you do that man? Like how do you develop a set? How do you develop 30 minutes or 60 minutes? and he was like I think about it like you're polishing pearls and you know you you have a joke and You go up and you tell the joke And, you know, like if it doesn't go at all, then you just throw it away and you never tell that joke again.
If it goes a little bit, but it has some sticky points, then you just polish it. Then you go up at a different spot and you tell that same joke again, right? And you, you, you figure out what parts of it hit and what parts of it don't. You polish it. And he's like, and, and eventually this, this pearl, it'll become this perfectly round, shiny pearl.
And then you set it off to the side and you always have that pearl. Right? And so. There's that exploratory phase of building a set and building the jokes. And then there's like, Oh, I know exactly how this joke is going to go, more or less. I know how it's going to go. I know when I can use it, when I shouldn't use it.
Right. But like that joke's done, it's baked. Right. And so I can set it off to the side. So thinking about that, it's like having this understanding of business models. It sounds like you're doing the same thing where you're like polishing your understanding. And now that you pursue your curiosity until you have this like.
round pearl of a business model inside your head. And you're like, cool. Now I can always use this model to drop these things in here and just see like obvious yes or obvious no's like
[00:18:09] Drew Glover: off the bat. I really like that analogy. I think there, there's a lot of connection there. Some things that pop into my head is it's, um, I'm sure it's similar to comedy, right?
Like different things are funny at different times. I remember hearing a comedian say like that comedian was before his time or her time or ahead of their time. And it wasn't because there were bad comedians. It was just because. The style of their comedy and delivery just didn't match the time. And if they had come out like a year ago, it would have been perfect.
But the thing about investing is curiosity is an ingredient, but it's not the main ingredient. And so, okay. Although that's a superpower of mine, I have to make sure that I put a governor around it so I don't. lead every single stage of a evaluation with curiosity. There's times where I have to turn it on and turn it off.
But regardless, when I do turn it on, it's one of my superpowers and I'm very happy to have it.
[00:19:07] Apollo Emeka: I love it. Everything that you're saying is like really hitting for me. So, you know, there are, I'm sure some of our listeners who are like, Oh yeah, that's me. Or like, then there are some people that are like, Oh, this is fascinating.
I don't have that. But Cool. For the, Oh, that this is me, right? This curiosity thing and how you've managed to have enough prioritize, right? Like you, you have this prioritize that has focused this curiosity into a really big thing. actionable, deployable skill set, right? That's allowed you to not only build your own kind of career track, but also help to shape these companies that we all interact with, right?
And then financial markets that's so crucial to, to our society. So You know, I think there are a lot of people who get kind of stuck in leverage and they, that curiosity again, they're like, one more degree, one more book that I'm going to read, one more podcast that I got to subscribe to, one more, you know, relationship, one more networking event.
You talked about this governor on your curiosity. Like, if you are a really curious person, how can you set up this governor? Are there, you know, internal kind of mindset switches? And then are there external things that you do as well to ensure that your, your curiosity is kind of balanced out?
[00:20:21] Drew Glover: So it's an interesting question, and I think many people would answer it differently.
From my standpoint, I know myself that I need to set up force functions in my life to be able to learn things that don't come natural to me. Again, we talk about the leverage and we talk about the execution. These were, I mean, I was always pretty decent with the leverage. I think I grew up into like a very like technology driven generation.
But, um, in terms of seeking out that additional leverage, like that was something that had to be learned. I was like, I'm running out of time. I need to find a way to better leverage my time so I could be as effective as possible. And so. My one person can stretch itself out a little bit longer. The execution side was, again, something learned.
Like, I run Fiat Ventures, which is our venture fund. I'm a GP, one of four folks. And then, also run Fiat Growth. You know, Fiat Growth is a growth consultancy, specifically focused on fintech, where we're helping companies of all sizes, call it pre seed, seed, all the way to IPO, helping their teams scale. And when I say that, I mean, like, literally, we're an extension of their growth team.
They forego hiring an internal growth team. Hire us. And we build out all their growth infrastructure. That is paid marketing, partnership marketing, standing up their MarTech stack and implementing platforms like Segment and Amplitude all the way over to standing up sales teams and scaling those up. So not only do I have to, from day one, have I always had to help win business, I've also had to work sometimes by myself, but now luckily we're in a place we got a little over 35 people in our, in our company where I can work with other people to deliver, you know, really great outcomes as well.
And. Thank you. Back in the day when I was younger, I was just, I was just an AE. I was a salesperson, right? Like, I got to close deals and I got to pass it over the fence for someone else to deliver on the success of that and make sure to retain them for the next 10 years. Now, overseeing both sales and retention, again, that is a force function.
Where at that point, all of a sudden, I got to make sure I'm executing, I'm setting up for our weekly call, I'm closing deals, I got to organize my time better. And frankly, like, these are things I could have hired for, but every single time when I knew, specifically, it's around a business that I co founded with someone else.
I knew how much I cared about the success and the outcome. I was like, let me take it upon myself to try to sharpen these things that I'm not great at because of how deeply I care about those things. I think some people want to get better at something they're not good at, but they don't care enough about the thing they're doing that's going to help them get better at it for them to actually do it.
I think we all know competitiveness. Curiosity. These are some things that you can grow up with. It's just like, they come second nature to you, or there are things that need to be learned. But me personally, for me to do something that I don't love doing innately, I have to put a forcing function into my day to day life.
That is my business life in this example. For me to continue improving and make it a skill that, you know, I can be proud of, which frankly makes my life easier. I don't love the task, but it does make my life a lot easier as I'm trying to bring ideas and, you know, you know, invest in the next generation of FinTech unicorns.
[00:23:23] Apollo Emeka: That's incredible. He's basically hacking his own personality, creating these forcing functions, putting these things on his plate because he is so competitive. We'll, we'll get to that in just a minute, but he's so competitive that he knows if he takes on a responsibility, he is going to see it through.
His competitive nature basically forces him to see it through. Now, would this work for you? It really depends on... what your values are, what makes you tick. That's why every single time that we start working with an individual leader, we make them do a leadership declaration, which forces them to decide how they want to be viewed by their team, by their family, by their community.
What are their values? What makes them tick? What makes them get up in the morning? What crushes their spirits? Because if you understand how you tick, then you can create the perfect forcing functions. For someone where competitiveness is not a core value, this might be incredibly stressful and it might not be a winning situation.
You have to design these kind of forcing functions, as he calls them, based on your unique personality and values. Let's see how else Drew uses forcing functions in his life.
[00:24:48] Drew Glover: There's so many jobs, so many things you can be doing, I don't want to talk about jobs, like, you know. I just had a kid, I have a 14 month old.
There's so many different things that have become a forcing function in my life, right? Of things that I don't love doing, but I do. Like, to be an incredible partner for my wife. Like, to be able to ensure that, you know, when I get home, like, my initial instinct isn't to just get on my phone or, you know, turn on the TV.
But it's like, I got an hour and a half with my child, and I gotta make sure I make the most of that. My love for curiosity, my love for also, like, really having no rules and always having the freedom to draw outside of the lines. There's so many times in life where you just have to set parameters for yourself, where, like, if you talk about a visual, just, like, putting bumpers on the bowling lane to make it so, like, every single time you want to go jump somewhere or step somewhere else, like, you're always going to fall back in line straight down the lane of what's most important based on the rules you set for yourself.
[00:25:39] Apollo Emeka: Yeah, I love that. Fourteen months, that's an awesome time. Um, yeah, we have a, a two year old and a five year old and they become more forceful forcing functions as they get older. You know, like, it's your conscience and your partner that are the forcing functions early on. But like when they're old enough to be like, yo, I just like, are you listening?
Right? Like Hey, I want to, I want to build a spaceship. I want to build a parachute with this, with this target bag and this paper towel roll. Like, there, there is no better forcing function than that,
[00:26:16] Drew Glover: man. You talk about curiosity. That's not second nature to you already. Having a kid will change that. I constantly look at my daughter.
Her name is Coco. Where? I just realized all these different firsts that are happening for her from the moment she was born to 14 months and just seeing like the curiosity and excitement of something that In my brain, I've done a thousand times, but for, for her, it's her first time and constantly trying to mentally myself drop into her space to try to think about what it would be like to experience the first time as well.
But it's this forcing function to not just like be reactive to the forcing function, but be proactive about it. Be like, yo, let me just try to be her as often as I possibly can.
[00:27:00] Apollo Emeka: I love it, man. I love it. Yeah. And it's. It's so funny how easy it is to see growth in them as well, you know, and I think about like when I wasn't a parent and like the things that parents would marvel over, it's like, oh my gosh, did you see the way that they just walked around that corner?
Like, yeah. Like, they walk around the corner. No, they always used to fall when they got to that point right there. You know what I mean? Like, it's so funny to, to be able to see those moments. Unless, like you said, you're buried in your phone, right? Or you're not there. But yeah, that, that, uh, that caring piece.
It's funny because a little behind the scenes action here. Ian, who is the founder of Caspian Studios, who are the producers of our podcast, and Kyle, who is their head of customer experience. Funny
[00:27:48] Drew Glover: story. I went to high school with both of them.
[00:27:50] Apollo Emeka: Exactly. And you know what? Kyle was telling me yesterday, we were on a meeting, he was like, yeah, we played football together and like, he was way better than both of us.
But it was just funny because they were like, yeah, awesome guy, super, super talented, super talented athlete. You know, how much of... You talked about doing these things that you don't want to do, but it sounds like on the accidental private investigating that I was able to do on you there back to your high school days, it sounds like you've had this kind of competitive drive from a really early age.
Like, do you, how much of your current success do you think is leaning into the things that you, which you just brought up as well? Like, How much of it is that and how much of it is actually developing new kind of core values or ways of looking at the
[00:28:39] Drew Glover: world? It's a good question. It's a mixture of the two.
You know, you being competitive can come from a million different places. You know, I grew up in the inner city of Oakland. The best family anyone could ever ask for. My dad ran a non profit called Okur, helps folks in the East Bay find affordable housing. Mom was a principal at the Oakland Unified School District.
Civic oriented, socially, social oriented. But again, like, I didn't grow up with a ton of means. And there was no issue there because I didn't yearn for anything that I didn't need. Like, I was in a great place. But my parents put me in private school my entire all my youth. And I grew up getting exposure to, I wouldn't say like...
Crazy wealth, but definitely, definitely wealth. And it was very easy for me to compare that to what I grew up in. There's one thing is I had way more love in my, in my house than anyone had in theirs, but there were things that I wanted. Right. And so that was something that always stuck in my brain. And I'll, I'll put a pin in that for a second.
The other one is my dad was so adamant on me playing sports. One thing, because he loved it even more. So it was like, there's so many different places to put you in sports. He was like, I don't care how many private schools you go to. I am dropping you into the leagues that are in the toughest parts of Oakland, and I got exposure to a different type of of dog, you know, just like these, like the people that I played with, man, like they were playing with, and I was one of them.
Like I, I became one of them like quickly, just a different type of competition, um, a different type of competitiveness. And it set the stage for me of like what it meant to, to really work for something. Like I remember as a 11 year old, you know, I was spending like 13, 14 hours on the football field with other 11 year olds, just like perfecting our craft.
Um, I played in high And I ended up playing quarterback and I was lucky enough to get into a place where I had so much responsibility at such a young age at quarterback. I was there. I never had a ton of confidence in school. However, when it came to sports, like my confidence was like off the charts and being able to like understand an offense and like run an offense.
And, you know, I got multiple scholarships for as a quarterback to get to go play in college. And I ended up going to UC Berkeley to play. I had this ability to just get so much exposure along my entire journey of sports to so many different types of people. These were folks from different socioeconomic backgrounds, from different geographies, that have different upbringings, different beliefs.
And we were all on a team and we all had to make it work together at every single step of the way. So that gave me the ability to kind of have this, this ability to code switch and be able to like work many different rooms, regardless of the background or kind of where you sat. But it also gave me the ability to go out, playing these other teams, and build this competitive mindset to just kind of want to win and not want to lose.
[00:31:31] Apollo Emeka: It's so funny how the term diversity has been pigeonholed and politicized so, so hard, but when I think about your upbringing and You know, just the composition of your household. You've got a school principal, a leader of a non profit working in housing in Oakland, and then you're going to private school, right, which is...
is a departure from that kind of vibe, right? But then you're going to the hood to suit up and play football. Like, that's, and it's just interesting that you can trace these ideas of curiosity and competitiveness back to these diverse experiences that you
[00:32:12] Drew Glover: had. I will say competitiveness, curiosity, all comes back to my parents.
Making sure that they constantly put me in uncomfortable situations so often as a kid that I found them comfortable. And that is something that I have cherished my entire life and constantly pushed myself to do. Of the second I say, this feels different. This feels uncomfortable. I say, awesome. Let's get so many reps at it that it feels comfortable because it feels uncomfortable for me.
It feels uncomfortable for everyone else, and when they say it feels uncomfortable, they quit on it. When I, when it feels uncomfortable for me, I say, gimme more. 'cause I want to feel comfortable in this space and this situation with this person. In this business, this pitch, whatever the situation is.
[00:33:00] Apollo Emeka: Getting comfortable being uncomfortable is an indispensable skill for leaders and entrepreneurs. But it's also an incredibly cliche saying at this point. How do you make that a reality? Throughout the Special Forces training pipeline, they helped us get comfortable with the uncomfortable by breaking things down into steps.
And then making us take those steps over and over and over again, until it became second nature. So, not only were me and my fellow Green Berets comfortable with the uncomfortable, but we actually gained new instincts that helped us perform under pressure. Let's hear how Drew thinks about getting comfortable with the uncomfortable.
[00:33:48] Drew Glover: I think you see it on everyone. There's some people that feel it, or everyone feels it, most people that are feeling uncomfortable, or scared, or whatever it is. You can also see it on their face, you can see it in their body language, you know. Languages go much further than just words, so, it's just one of those things where I take a lot of pride in the ability to make it so.
Like every situation, I get very excited, even when I'm nervous and scared, and my knees might be shaking, it's just like to stand tall and be like, Cool. This, this, this is uncomfortable, but I'm going to make it feel comfortable.
[00:34:19] Apollo Emeka: I love it, man. Because again, I feel like our brains are wired so similarly, although our upbringings were completely different.
Like my parents were incredibly hands off. A lot of love in the house, but like, they were like, Oh, you don't want to go to school? Cool. Don't go. Oh, you don't want to go to basketball practice? Don't go. So, I was uncomfortable with everything, because I would just be like, as soon as I'd feel that first discomfort, I'd be like, I don't want to do that.
And they'd be like, Don't! And I'd be like, You're not supposed to say that! Please make me go! Make me go! No, at the time, literally, I was like, Yeah, I don't want to go, but I need to go! You know that! I know that! Like, why aren't you making me go? But yeah, so I had to learn that, but there were a lot of things that my parents afforded me.
In terms of having that level of autonomy at such a young age. age that I think helped me develop some of my superpowers. And it's really helped me shape how I think about raising a kid with my wife, who her mom worked to get her into the good public schools, you know? And it was a do your homework and then you can do whatever you want.
And so now here we are, like I grew up, I dropped out of basically fourth grade, but officially dropped out of high school. I have a doctorate now, so I found my way. into academia, and now I'm raising two children with somebody who came up the exact opposite way that I came up, you know? How do you think?
that your upbringing smashed together with your wife's upbringing. Like, what are some of the big things that you think about parenting and forcing functions for your kids? Like the forcing functions your, your parents gave you?
[00:36:01] Drew Glover: Yeah, it's a great question. My wife and I are very different in many ways.
She grew up religious. She grew up with a lot more rules. Our main like language is And frankly, sarcasm. Um, but we realized that we were incredible for each other because no matter what, no matter how dire the situation, we all could always make each other laugh. And obviously there's many, I think she's the most beautiful woman on earth.
I could go down the list of all things I love about her, but at the end of the day here. That was it. And so for us, as we've, you know, been raising my daughter, it's been very natural. And keep in mind, like, I'm someone that doesn't love a ton of rules. And she, she likes a lot of rules. So, you talk about putting a forcing function in your life to do the things you don't want to do?
Like, have a significant other that can be one of those forcing functions. But I am an equal forcing function for her of saying, Hey. Let's chill. This moment's okay. This is not a moment that needs rules. And then on the other end, she can pull me up and say, like, this is one of those times where we got to put some structure around this.
And so we play off each other incredibly well. And of course, we're able to laugh through it all, which makes everything, you know, a little bit more fun, a little bit more lighthearted.
[00:37:19] Apollo Emeka: I love it. So then am I hearing that? It's about finding that balance between the kind of structure and the, I guess, go with the flowness of it.
[00:37:30] Drew Glover: It is. It is. And then, like, of course, I would say at one point in my life I was a very extreme example of just, like, Go with the flow. And I see over the last 10 years, I've moved into someone that will always be in my heart, go with the flow, but have input some guardrails of the opposite of that, the execution, even like the leverage side of things, because I understand its value in the world.
And then I've set up all these different forcing functions around me to ensure that, like, I can continue to maintain those things, because we all know if it's something you don't love doing. And you don't have force functions in your life that are going to make it so you can continue to practice that, then you're just going to go back to the way you were.
Like, I know this, like, I am a 37 year old individual. There are some things that are just never going to change about me. And I know I have to continue practicing the things that I don't love to ensure that they always have, they're, they're an ingredient into like, you know, the main course.
[00:38:26] Apollo Emeka: So the last 10 years was about moving from more go at the flow to more structure.
What's the next 10 years about? Is it more guardrails? Like, what's the next evolution look like for you?
[00:38:38] Drew Glover: I think that is, uh, you know, the parameters, guardrails, those are things that will continue to evolve at a very slow clip. Sometimes I'll be expanding them. Sometimes I'll be retracting them. I think those will go up and down over time.
What I see is, we talk about this like, inch deep, mile wide, three deep, mile wide. I actually think there's going to be a couple places where I just go 10 feet deep. Um, and those are going to be, you know, very specific spaces. Like, for example, FinTech. Like, just like the world in general, because we focus on it so much.
That's one where I'm just like, constantly digging. And one thing that I've really Curated my career around is being able to see trends before they happen. Um, so really making sure that, you know, we talk about these business models and systems and really understanding them and taking a deeper dive into them and understanding where opportunities lie that haven't been executed on yet.
And to the point of being able to take ideas and bring them to life through like this execution side of my brain, that is very learned. Like, being able to see those trends, I need to have that muscle always super strong to say I have an idea, I'm going to go do the research, I'm going to go leverage the data, I'm going to leverage the technology.
To go prove out, this is something that we need to get ahead of and be investing in now, or working with clients that are already thinking about that.
[00:40:02] Apollo Emeka: Man, I love it. It's really interesting. I think you, you have a really unique perspective from the folks that we've talked to on the show. We were talking to Kerry Colbert, who was a.
petroleum engineer and was like, yeah, you got to get that technical specialty. And just watching that transition from technical, you know, from let's go 10 feet deep, right, to actually now let's zoom out. And you kind of came at this from the other angle. So it's, it's really interesting. And I feel like our brains are similarly wired.
And so this has been a really, really insightful conversation for me. I'm like, Literally taking notes because I think that you are, you're articulating things that I have felt and that I operate on, but just have never said out loud. So, it's been an awesome conversation, man, and I really appreciate you coming on the show.
[00:40:49] Drew Glover: Same here. Thanks so much for having and I appreciate you for diving a little bit deeper and having me think about things I don't get to think about often. So, it's been awesome. Thank you. It's my
[00:40:58] Apollo Emeka: pleasure, man. Thank you so much. Wow, that wasn't even a podcast episode. That was a conversation between two long lost friends who have never met before, but we're gonna publish it anyways.
Drew Glover, you just blew my mind, son. Now it's time for the takeaways. First and foremost, when it comes to prioritizing. One of the most interesting things that I think that Drew does is he uses competing priorities as forcing functions to make him get better at the things he doesn't like doing. So, one priority over here, like running the sales side, which he's comfortable with, with this other priority of here.
with running some part of the business that he's less comfortable with. It's forced him to get new skills and develop. So use those competing priorities, people. Also, he says that you should know your vision better than anyone else. Which is something that we just kind of glanced over in our conversation, but so many people don't even understand their own vision, don't have a vision for themselves or for their team or for their business.
So that's really salient advice when it comes to leverage. He says that. One of the keys to his success is understanding business models, understanding how businesses work. And once you do, then you can kind of use that as a lens to evaluate any business. He's also really big about leaning on your intrinsic values.
For him, it's curiosity and competitiveness. These seem to be two drivers he has fully embraced to achieve the levels of success that he has. Also, you can hear that in his background, he was given gifts of experience that he has learned to leverage in his adult life. What might be lurking in your background, in your upbringing, that you're just taking for granted that you could be leveraging and mining for skills and experience that could help you today?
And finally, When it comes to execute, he says, Hey, yeah, I'm an executive, I'm running the company, but sometimes I have to do the initial legwork to give shape to my vision so that other people can run with it. And in the future, he actually sees himself maybe diving a little bit more into the execution side of things by growing a deeper expertise within specific niches.
Whew. Thank you so much, Drew. And thank you all for listening. I'll see you on the mountain. Remember, you can find out what your achievement index is by going to www. theachievementindex. com. Take the assessment. Takes about 15, 20 minutes. Make sure you're in a nice. It's calm state of mind in a quiet place and you can find out your own achievement index and figure out how you match up against our guests.
I'm Dr. Apollo Omeka. If you like the podcast, please rate us on whatever platform you're listening and remember to share it with your friends. Thanks. See you next time.